Hi everyone,
I posted this over in the regular Polyamory tribe and wanted to get some replies here, too. Please let me know what your thoughts are.
part 1
<<I'd like to know what everyone's thoughts are on flirting... specifically, flirting between two supposed "platonic" friends. Do you flirt with friends that are strictly platonic, or does acting in a sexually suggestive manner go beyond platonic? What are your boundaries regarding who you flirt with/act sexually with? What do you consider flirting, what do you consider sexually suggestive? Where do sexual comments fit into this? Physical contact?
IMO, at a base level we flirt with others to express sexual interest. I personally don't engage in a flirty or sexual manner with anyone I wouldn't desire some sort of sexual contact with. That doesn't mean I don't express my sexuality or am not comfortable with my sexuality around my close friends, but to me flirting and acting in a sexual manner crosses several boundaries, and platonic is platonic--*nothing* sexual.
I'd prefer not to share too many of the lurid details, but basically I'm having a falling out with a good friend (that admittedly I've had deep feelings for for a couple years but not really vocalized to him) that has a lot to do with flirting and being sexual around each other. He's saying it's strictly platonic and that I'm reading too much into his actions, however 1) we're not open about our flirting, and he's in a committed relationship with someone I'm sure has no idea what goes on between us when she's not around (and she's not poly, and obviously he's not much of an ethical monogamist), 2) apparently he's always known how I've felt about him yet has continued to engage in a sexual manner. I've laid it on the table that I can no longer participate in this, that I have feelings for him, etc., he admits attraction for me but that the flirting was harmless. Well, there's a lot more but that's the bare bones of it, and I'd rather keep the rest of it confidential. >>
part 2
<<Well let's see... he only engages me in physical contact if nobody else is around, including hugging hello/goodbye (and for those of you who know me IRL i hug *everybody*, and though I'm very sexually open i'm also very shy, and i don't easily let a lot of people in), he's initiated horseplay (pillow fight), coy glances/look away/look back and hold for a few seconds, a totally random comment about my performing oral sex, he usually just comes over on nights when his SO is working and stays pretty late. I'm not blind to the way he looks at me sometimes, and i definitely know now that he's not blind to the way i've been looking at him either. There's other obscure stuff. I dunno how it seems to you guys, probably for the most part harmless, but what's really bugging me is that he says he knew how i felt but continued to act in a way that gave me false hope, and i feel we acted inappropriately behind our partners' backs. he says he loves me dearly and that i'm like family to him, but there's little that's familial about our interactions. Both of my partners have commented on the tension between he and I.
I honestly don't feel that I've read too much into his actions/words, and now he thinks i'm obsessed with him. No, I just have feelings for him and I feel a little betrayed :-( He seems to think I'm pointing fingers and stirring up drama, when my intention was only to tell him how i feel about him and how i felt about our continued interactions. he's in a mono relationship with a mono person that i'm having difficulty establishing a friendship with because of how he and i interact. uggghhh, like I said it's a *long* story!
what originally set me off about having to come clean in the first place: I had been planning on going to BM this year with he and his SO. Because he and i have fooled around before, and BM is, well, it's just that--an environment where I'd be in close proximity to 2 people that i have very confused feelings about, one of whom i've had a sexual encounter with *and* have feelings for, the other I'm not even sure if she knows what's gone on in the past, there's drugs, there's revelations, there's nudity, things happen (LOVE happens, heheheh). if there was even the remotest chance that i was going to be that emotionally vulnerable with the remotest chance that we'd fool around, it wasn't gonna happen unless all cards were on the table for everyone, but the big thing for me is that... i don't just want to fool around with this person, i feel so much more for them then that. and i needed to express that. so i agonized for about a month making myself extremely physically ill in the process, then bit the bullet and came clean. And that about fills in the gaps.
i dunno... all i can think is that either he has feelings for me and he's just not being honest because he can't act on it right now, or that he made a conscious decision to mislead me.
eek! help!>>
I posted this over in the regular Polyamory tribe and wanted to get some replies here, too. Please let me know what your thoughts are.
part 1
<<I'd like to know what everyone's thoughts are on flirting... specifically, flirting between two supposed "platonic" friends. Do you flirt with friends that are strictly platonic, or does acting in a sexually suggestive manner go beyond platonic? What are your boundaries regarding who you flirt with/act sexually with? What do you consider flirting, what do you consider sexually suggestive? Where do sexual comments fit into this? Physical contact?
IMO, at a base level we flirt with others to express sexual interest. I personally don't engage in a flirty or sexual manner with anyone I wouldn't desire some sort of sexual contact with. That doesn't mean I don't express my sexuality or am not comfortable with my sexuality around my close friends, but to me flirting and acting in a sexual manner crosses several boundaries, and platonic is platonic--*nothing* sexual.
I'd prefer not to share too many of the lurid details, but basically I'm having a falling out with a good friend (that admittedly I've had deep feelings for for a couple years but not really vocalized to him) that has a lot to do with flirting and being sexual around each other. He's saying it's strictly platonic and that I'm reading too much into his actions, however 1) we're not open about our flirting, and he's in a committed relationship with someone I'm sure has no idea what goes on between us when she's not around (and she's not poly, and obviously he's not much of an ethical monogamist), 2) apparently he's always known how I've felt about him yet has continued to engage in a sexual manner. I've laid it on the table that I can no longer participate in this, that I have feelings for him, etc., he admits attraction for me but that the flirting was harmless. Well, there's a lot more but that's the bare bones of it, and I'd rather keep the rest of it confidential. >>
part 2
<<Well let's see... he only engages me in physical contact if nobody else is around, including hugging hello/goodbye (and for those of you who know me IRL i hug *everybody*, and though I'm very sexually open i'm also very shy, and i don't easily let a lot of people in), he's initiated horseplay (pillow fight), coy glances/look away/look back and hold for a few seconds, a totally random comment about my performing oral sex, he usually just comes over on nights when his SO is working and stays pretty late. I'm not blind to the way he looks at me sometimes, and i definitely know now that he's not blind to the way i've been looking at him either. There's other obscure stuff. I dunno how it seems to you guys, probably for the most part harmless, but what's really bugging me is that he says he knew how i felt but continued to act in a way that gave me false hope, and i feel we acted inappropriately behind our partners' backs. he says he loves me dearly and that i'm like family to him, but there's little that's familial about our interactions. Both of my partners have commented on the tension between he and I.
I honestly don't feel that I've read too much into his actions/words, and now he thinks i'm obsessed with him. No, I just have feelings for him and I feel a little betrayed :-( He seems to think I'm pointing fingers and stirring up drama, when my intention was only to tell him how i feel about him and how i felt about our continued interactions. he's in a mono relationship with a mono person that i'm having difficulty establishing a friendship with because of how he and i interact. uggghhh, like I said it's a *long* story!
what originally set me off about having to come clean in the first place: I had been planning on going to BM this year with he and his SO. Because he and i have fooled around before, and BM is, well, it's just that--an environment where I'd be in close proximity to 2 people that i have very confused feelings about, one of whom i've had a sexual encounter with *and* have feelings for, the other I'm not even sure if she knows what's gone on in the past, there's drugs, there's revelations, there's nudity, things happen (LOVE happens, heheheh). if there was even the remotest chance that i was going to be that emotionally vulnerable with the remotest chance that we'd fool around, it wasn't gonna happen unless all cards were on the table for everyone, but the big thing for me is that... i don't just want to fool around with this person, i feel so much more for them then that. and i needed to express that. so i agonized for about a month making myself extremely physically ill in the process, then bit the bullet and came clean. And that about fills in the gaps.
i dunno... all i can think is that either he has feelings for me and he's just not being honest because he can't act on it right now, or that he made a conscious decision to mislead me.
eek! help!>>
posted by:
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SF Bay Area
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Re: Flirting with a "Platonic" Friend?
Mon, July 31, 2006 - 11:05 AMIn regards to part one: I flirt with lots of people, platonic or not. I try to stay within the boundaries of their comfort levels. My comfort level is mostly at physical contact and serious, persistant flirting. Either of those will make me reevaluate the flirting and consider whether it's flirting for fun or flirting with intent. I /do/ think that one can flirt in that fashion and have it be "platonic", or at least, not an indicator of serious sexual attraction, but I would be uncomfortable with it from someone who isn't serious about me.
In regards to the second part: I think it's okay for you to set boundaries of how you can interact with him. For instance, telling him that you're uncomfortable doing these flirty things with him because you actually /are/ really attracted to him and you know there are insurmountable difficulties is perfectly reasonable. However, I don't think it's necessarilly fair to him to simply say that he has feelings for you and isn't being honest. It's possible that he was trying to give you what he could without crossing his own lines of acceptability, and didn't realize how much that was going to affect you. (The situation is, obviously, too complex to make such a snap judgement on my part, so I offer this possibility only as a way to break out of the binary thinking it seems you've come to.)
If the two of them are monogamous, then there's not a lot you can do. It sucks to be in that unrequited position, but it's also not anyone's fault. (Here I can speak with experience, as a very good friend of mine is not poly and despite my feelings for her, I realize that our relationship will be, barring dramatic changes, simply one of deep friendship.) I think the best thing to do is figure out what kind of relationship you /can/ have with this person and work to make that the best you can make it.
